Gareth Davies and Graham Johnson: 'I run the busiest prison in the UK'

All week, people have told us about working in the penal system. We'd like to hear more. Today: the heads of two very prominent jails.

I am inordinately proud of holding one of the most interesting and exciting jobs there is, but in company I keep it quiet.

If asked, I might be an actuary, or a sanitary engineer or even a brain surgeon. The point being that few people would dream of telling those professionals how to do their jobs, whereas the reaction to my work is likely to be a diatribe on what should be done to, for, by, prisoners, prison officers, prison governors, lawyers, judges, magistrates, parents, policemen and society in general. All interesting stuff, no doubt about it - but not at every gathering.

"The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of the civilisation of any country." Winston had his flaws, but in that opinion he was right on the money - and I have to say, by his criterion (and as someone who's been on the receiving end of too many diatribes), I have serious doubts about our civilisation.

I run the busiest prison in the United Kingdom. Last year more than 32,000 movements took place through the reception area, of which about 8,500 were new prisoners coming from the courts. The way things are going, you can add 60% to these turnover figures for this year.

Of these, mainly young, men, 13% of new admissions have acute psychiatric problems. More than 80% of the admissions have a latent tendency to psychiatric illness caused among other things by drug-induced psychosis. More than 75% will have used heroin or crack or both within 30 days prior to arrest.

Nearly 60% will require remedial education, most are unemployed, and most will have no accommodation to which they can return.

It is not helpful, incidentally, to tell me that such people should not be in prison because, of course, I agree.

They are with me, however, and will remain so whilst the public accepts that prison is the only safe place for some of our most deprived and vulnerable subjects. Received wisdom is that we can do nothing in prison for such young men; however, I feel I'd be failing in my duty if I didn't at least try.

Last year, Pentonville completed more drugs detoxifications than all the health authorities in London north of the Thames put together - nearly 2,500. Our education department provided 140 prisoners with literacy and numeracy qualifications to a level where their prospects of employment were significantly advanced from nil.

This is expensive stuff, and we don't do nearly enough of it, but the prison service cannot put up the "house full" shutters.

We are supposed to be the last resort. Just now, it appears the last resort is more frequently used than ever - far too often to show our society in a healthy light. We should be worried about that.

· Gareth Davies, 56, is governing governor of Pentonville prison, London, capacity 1,175

This was a frozen-in-time establishment. Though the prison service has been chang ing in recent years - in the drive for decency, and in the very way it sees prisoners - Dartmoor was slow to change.

Its own and the public's perception was: "Hardest jail in the country." Prisoners and officers alike had lived the Dartmoor image. The look was part of it, built of granite, very austere, almost a museum that happens to have prisoners in it. In reality it wasn't the hardest, but the whole aura was being fed by the name. Anyway, in I walked as the 38th governor since 1809 and saying, we need to start again. There was great resistance, open and subversive. But as the process began it was the prisoners who started to believe that Dartmoor could change, and then the staff who were brought in, and are now giving it momentum.

With some aspects of Dartmoor I also had to be able to say: I find that unacceptable, it will stop, end of story.

E wing was a classic example - the segregation block, vast place, much criticised by an inspection team three months after I arrived.

Now we're nine-tenths of the way through refurbishing it as a resettlement unit where we prepare prisoners for release by putting responsibility on to them, and skilling them: the prison service as a whole is working on numeracy and literacy now. That's supplemented by courses such as anger management and enhanced thinking skills.

Here we're also linking up with the regional development agency in the south-west of England. We'll be trying to match skills this area is short of, with our plans for workshops - so people discharged from Dartmoor to the area have a maximum chance of employment.

Catering and construction are two main shortfalls. Our priority is to set up a plasterer's shop and a brickwork shop. We don't know yet if we'll do catering in the sense of a cooking school, or something more on the service end, like waitering. This is all in its infancy.

If we're effective at these things that challenge offending behaviour - building responsibility and skills, and treating people decently - we will have an impact on the crime figures.

· Graham Johnson, 49, became governing governor of Dartmoor prison in June last year, with a mandate to reform