Poker: Aces Up -- An interview with Phil Gordon

Being Phil Gordon must be one heck of an experience, because he's not only lucky, he's very, very good.

The professional poker player scored big on the World Poker Tour when he won at Bay 101 on June 6, while continuing to impress as expert co-host of Bravo's hit series "Celebrity Poker Showdown."

I had the chance to sit down with the pro that inspired my own poker aspirations and ask him a few questions about the game, the players, the politics and exactly how many people there are named Phil.

Despite the fact that my phone was uncooperative and my recorder didn't tape a single thing, I can still say it was one of the coolest experiences I've ever had in my entire life.

Phil was funny, gracious, candid and extremely articulate, one hundred percent deserving of all the things I've said about him over the past couple of months.

There are, however, still things left to say.

So in telling the "Legend of Phil Gordon," it would be fitting to start with...

Bay 101: In Which Phil Gordon Rules The World

It goes without saying that I now owe Phil Gordon two. Not one, but two.

Way back after I wrote the recap of first-season Aruba, he tipped me off to the events of Bay 101's Shooting Star, which aired on June 6 -- the tournament in which he wins it all.

Now he's done this interview with me. I still can't believe he actually reads and likes these recaps of mine.

Okay, maybe I owe him three...

Anyway, it goes without saying that Bay 101 was my hands-down favorite event of the WPT second season, despite the fact that I ended up watching it through a Fenway Park rain delay. (I agree with Phil -- I need TiVo. Seriously.)

Phil hit one out of the park, defeating even 2003 World Champion Chris Moneymaker, whom he and I have nothing but praise for. Not only is Moneymaker good, but he keeps working at being good.

"Chris is a fantastic player that has been and will continue to be a remarkable spokesman for the game," Phil informed me. "I have tremendous respect for his game. He's a much better player now than he was when he won the World Championship in 2003. He has really dedicated himself to improving, and it is showing up with results. "That being said, I wasn't the least bit intimidated."

Of course not. Grace under pressure, ladies and gentlemen, is what poker is all about, and something Gordon exemplifies. Meanwhile, yours truly would have been about three shades whiter.

Bay 101 also involved two other classic moments from the catalog of Phil: his notorious double knockout of both Moneymaker and Masoud Shojaei to win the title, and his prop gag during the hand that knocked out Suzie Kim.

If you flash back to my recap of Bay 101, you'll recall that I was pretty well pumped with that double knockout (the first in WPT history), and quite happy I hadn't started eating or I probably would've choked when I cheered.

What was going through Phil's mind when that ace came up on the flop and gave him the title?

"Honestly, relief that I wasn't going to have to play heads up," he told me.

This is no surprise. Heads-up is the ultimate pressure situation in poker -- I'd be the same way if I were looking at Chris Moneymaker across the table. Either that, or I might just be under the table.

But what about that prop gag? Combined with his gag against drama queen Phil Hellmuth at Aruba, it begs the question: was Phil an improv comedian in a past life?

He elucidates it for me: "Hey, people at home watching the shows are not all poker players. They are watching to be entertained. If I can give them a little chuckle in the middle of what is arguably very intense programming, so be it. They deserve it: they're watching poker on TV."

So, do I realize I have no social life, since I've spent Wednesday and Thursday nights on the couch watching poker, taking notes and generally learning the game on the fly. But I can't complain: I'm well-educated and well-entertained, and I have Phil to thank for that.

The World Poker Tour vs. Celebrity Poker Showdown: The Part of This Which Makes No Sense

Phil has less kind words to say about the hatred the World Poker Tour displays for "Celebrity Poker Showdown," which he and I are both sure directly led to his being rushed through what would've normally been a much bigger celebration at Bay 101.

WPT authorities believe that "CPS" executive producers stole their idea for the "Hollywood Home Game" and have thus refused to include Phil in a number of things and generally ignored any poker game that's not theirs.

"WPT believes that Bravo stole the idea for CPS from them. WPT feels very strongly about "owning poker" and will not recognize that all forms of poker programming do nothing but help them," Phil told me. "The egos at WPT are, well, as big as the other Phil's."

That says it all, given that we've talked extensively about Phil Hellmuth's ego in the recaps and references to Aruba and Foxwoods over these past couple of months. That, and watching him on "Poker Kings" was vaguely like a trip to my dentist.

Of course, I had to ask the much cooler other Phil about my number-one pet peeve from "Hollywood Home Game": the infamous red card, no matter how much I adore Danny Negreanu. It's not the only thing he's not thrilled with.

"The self dealing is a farce, the red card thing an abomination, and Vince and Mike have a hard time "dumbing down" the commentary for the level of play," he said.

I still think Phil could beat up Vince Van Patten any day of the week, and I've said so before, but the self-dealing is the one I hadn't thought about.

Obviously, they can't show every single hand played, and the self-dealing makes that apparent. I sit there and realize I wasn't paying that close attention. Hey, there's a reason Phil's the poker expert and I'm just the pundit.

Celebrity Poker Showdown: In Which Phil Takes Center Stage

Outside of all the WPT insanity, however, I have to make time in the conversation for my favorite Thursday night activity: "Celebrity Poker Showdown." Is it as fun to put together as it is to watch?

"I have a blast at the tapings," he said. "Seriously. The whole atmosphere is just fun, fun, fun. Dave Foley has me laughing so hard at times that I need a makeup adjustment about every 30 minutes."

Of his new co-host, Phil tells me Dave "doesn't know how to play," but that it in fact makes his job much easier. He can then do his thing that he does (my wording, not his -- I must still have "That Thing You Do!" jokes in my head) uninterrupted.

It shows, too. This season is much more relaxed, while with poker fan Kevin Pollak in the co-host chair and it being the first time out, Phil told me he was approaching "Celebrity Poker Showdown" like the World Poker Tour!

The second season has been a definite improvement, he tells me: "We know what the show is supposed to be. After seeing six episodes on TV, it was clear to me that the poker was secondary and that WPT style commentary wasn't quite getting the job done. I began to feel more comfortable in front of the camera, and loosened up a bit. Dave helped with that a lot. He has definitely changed the vibe of the show and has made the celebs feel very welcome and at home. That, combined with *much* better poker playing this season has made a world of difference."

I finally had the chance to ask Phil how he always appears to be of even height with his co-hosts, despite being 6'9".

It turns out the legs on the chairs are different heights!

Well, that's a better way of doing it than my idea of having Dave Foley sit on a half-dozen phone books.

While I was trading anecdotes with him, I took the opportunity to have him name some of the best and worst players "CPS" has seen over its short run.

Our lists of the worst were virtually identical, as he included "What does that mean?" boy Scott Stapp, cell-phone advocate Coolio, Carrie Fisher and the disappearing Martin Sheen from Tournament One and first-hand suck-out Adam Rodriguez as well as "learning lounge" advocate Sean Astin from Tournament Two.

Getting kudos from the poker expert, though, were the likes of Ben Affleck, Michael Ian Black, "suck-out artist" alias Card Rack 2.0 Dule Hill, James Woods, David Cross (bathrobe and all), Lauren Graham, and Hank Azaria.

(Despite the latter's being first-out in two rounds of "CPS," Phil informs me he's a very good player, having played at Hank's home game the prior night, in which Hank was the winner and Phil took a bit of a beating.)

I'm pleasantly happy when Phil gives props to my directorial hero and Game 2.5 fatality Jon Favreau (who also wrote the foreword to Phil's upcoming poker book), telling me he takes the game "very seriously." I pretty much figured that, given the death glare Favz naturally summons.

I can laugh when he tells me he still gives Tournament One winner Nicole Sullivan a hard time for the suck-out that kyboshed the hopes of my favorite, Paul Rudd.

I also don't feel so bad that I can't pick a winner in Tournament Two. The first few shows of "CPS" they did, Phil told me he picked the finish in reverse order. It does make me feel better after backing Sean Astin...

And now it's time to reveal how things, Artemus, are not always what they appear to be. (If you don't get the reference to "The Wild, Wild West" TV show, go ask your parents.)

Remember how I said Game 2.5 seemed like a lot of fun? Well, it's all in the editing.

Phil tells me that "from the announcer's booth, we looked like we were dead." He was the one who coerced Dave Foley to go out and give the players those infamous tequila shots, hoping to liven up the game so it wouldn't look like dead air.

Well, good thinking, Phil, and that must be some really good editing!

However, Game 2.5 is the rare exception to the rule.

Phil tells me a hilarious story from the Tournament One championship game: "I convinced all five players to go all-in on the very first hand of the tournament as a "Punk'd" gag on Josh Malina, our executive producer. The expletives in the earpiece were priceless ... Oh my fucking God, we don't have a fucking show! This is a *@#$@ disaster. Get the Bravo lawyers on the #@$@#$ phone...' The actors did a great job playing up the all-in thing too... Priceless."

Considering that I remember Josh Malina from "Sports Night" and have had the opportunity to exchange e-mails with him, I can imagine that moment pitch-perfectly.

It's no wonder that I look forward to Thursday nights more than Wednesdays.

The Rest Of The Questions: It's A Lot Cooler Than Being John Malkovich

He's won WPT titles, anchored an awesome second poker series, and he's even written a book, due out here in a few months. Is there anything Phil Gordon can't do?

It was time for me to ask him about the miscellaneous things that have popped up in my head over my period as a poker analyst.

First of all, between him, Phil Ivey, Phil Hellmuth, and Phil Laak, among others, is there some special bonus for poker players named Phil?

Possibly so, he theorizes.

"Hellmuth, Laak, Ivey, Paul Phillips... yes, it seems there are bonus chips awarded for starting with a name that evokes 'accountant' and 'geek.'"

Well, considering the 2003 World Champion is an accountant by trade, I think you could do much worse.

Has the sudden popularity of televised poker changed his game at all?

"Hasn't changed my approach much, but has definitely raised the public profile of most of the top pros. You also have to constantly be aware of the hands that people have seen you play on TV and how that might impact their decision making in the future."

Phil Hellmuth, take note.

How does he prepare for a tournament?

"Try to sleep well, focus, and tell myself that it's OK to get eliminated if you're making the right play," he said. "You must be prepared to commit all your chips if it's the right thing to do."

Note to self: drinking tons of Mountain Dew and playing Jane's Addiction's "Just Because" over and over at earth-shattering volume may not be most effective method of preparation.

Now, after buying a few poker books and watching a lot of "CPS," I kept saying Phil Gordon needed to write a book.

Well, he's finally done it (thank God), so what was that like? He tells me it's "tiring but rewarding. I hope the results will please the large audience the book is meant for. It is not the ultimate 'how to' guide, but it is meant to give a look at being a pro and the poker lifestyle. There is something for everyone."

Including people like me who are wishing at least one of their top three players would come out with books, but are instead left reading Phil Hellmuth's page-turner.

Then there's the ultimate question: if Phil Gordon could pick his own final table, who would be there? I asked him to pick one from "Celebrity Poker Showdown" and one table of professionals, and here's who he selected, in no particular order.

The celebrities were: "Me, Nicole Sullivan, Lauren Graham, Rosario Dawson, and Emily Procter." Hey, I'd want to see Emily Procter back. She was pretty imposing on "The West Wing," back when it was good.

And the professionals: "Me, Hellmuth, Ivey, [Howard] Lederer, and [Chris] Ferguson," he tells me, while I start thinking about how a matchup of my number-one and number-two favorite players might go. "If I could beat that table, I might finally get some respect."

Well, he's definitely got my respect, and if he keeps going on this track, he's certain to gain more.

After all, you have to respect the guy who won't go easy on you at a final table just because you're writing his recaps.

That's true competition, and Phil Gordon is a true professional.

And Phil, I'm still working on that nickname.