On Born Again Christianity

No, I'm not a former Christian - just an avid reader, past, present, and future.

Yes, I'm quite aware there are 'good' parts in the Bible as well. And I like quite a bit of it for the literary value. But I don't think that holds any water for 'believing' in it. There are some 'good' parts in the Communist Manifesto as well and that doesn't make Karl Marx my personal deity.

You said - "As forall the verses you picked ..if that were the whole bible i dont know if i would be a Christian either :)"

I have heard that argument from many religious people (not just Christians) and it seems to me then that they pick and choose what they want to believe.

And if someone likes to believe only in the 'good' parts, it is quite possible that there are others who may chose to believe only in the 'bad'.

I think that if people are creating Religion to suit their own likes anyway, why stick to labels?

Why would I want to plagiarize someone else's idea when I can cook up my own recipe?

As for what will it take for me to believe in God - an unmeasurable dollop of self-deceit, I imagine.

I suppose we could continue this discussion for a long time - I refute, you defend, and on we go - it would be quite fun, but it would also be ultimately fruitless.

You said - "(Christianity) is all i have to hold on to besides the changes in my life and my being."

I respect your need to believe in something that supports and sustains you at this point in your life.

And I think you should respect my right to have utter disbelief in what you believe.

Sonal Panse

What happened to 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'?

You know, other people are as entitled to believe in what they want the same way that you are. They are as entitled to go around telling other people that THEIR religion is the only one around worth following. That it was the one that changed them and that they expect it to change everyone else too. (I personally don't think anyone's entitled to jump to such conclusions, really, but if the field's an open season for one, it's an open season for all).

You chose to believe in Christianity. He chooses to believe in Islam. Same piece of nonsense from my angle.

But, while Allah is right up there with the Just God on my list of disbeliefs, I'm kind of bothered with your remark - "Yikes! isnt allah the one who tells you to kill others in order to get to paradise!?"

I'm always bothered when the pot calls the kettle black.

Read this - I quote directly from the Good Book - The Bible, I mean, not the Koran -

1. "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn--both men and animals--and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD." Exodus 12:12

2. "Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

3. "And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain." (Deuteronomy 2:34)

4. "And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Hesbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities we took for a prey to ourselves." (Deuteronomy 3:6-7)

5. "Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place." (Deuteronomy 12:2-3)

6. "If anyone secretly entices you--even if it is your brother, your father's son or your mother's son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend-- saying, "Let us go worship other gods" you must not yield to or heed any such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. But you shall surely KILL them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and then the hand of all the people. Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from the Lord your God." (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

7. "Suppose a man is caught raping a girl who is not engaged. He is to pay the girl's father the bride price of fifty pieces of silver, and she is to become his wife, because he forced her to have intercourse with him. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

8. "…If however the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death..." (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

9. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [1] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, childrem and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (I Samuel 15:2-3 )

10. "...I will raise up evil against you out of your own house; I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun." (II Samuel 12-11 )

11. "The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10)

12. O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy [shall he be], that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. (Psalm 137:8)

Happy [shall he be], that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. (Psalm 137:9)

13. "Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15-16)

14. "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women..." (Ezekiel 9 : 5-6 )

15. "I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first born, that I might horrify them; that they might know that I am the Lord. (Ezekiel 20: 25-26 )

16. "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

17. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring them hither, and slay them before me. (Mark 9:34)

18. Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Luke 12:51-53)

19. If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

20. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27)

Verily I say to thee, Forget Paradise, the Bible God is all set to make life impossible right here on Earth. (Sonal Panse)

So please enlighten me.

Why DO you always have to harass Christians to feel.... smart?

Sonal Panse :-)