Slovenia – The Land Between – Hard Talk with Vlado Bevc, Book Reviewer, Author and Scientist – 2/2

Book reference: The Land Between, a History of Slovenia (English)

First comprehensive history of Slovenes in English, Published by Peter Lang Publisher Gmbh Frankfurt, 2008

Contributions by Oto Luthar, Igor Grdina, Marjeta Sasel Kos, Petra Svoljsak, Peter Kos, Dusan Kos, Peter Stih, Alja Brglez and Martin Pogacar

Contents: From Prehistory to the End of the Ancient World - The Early Middle Ages - Feudalism - The Early Modern Period - Modernization and National Emancipation - From the Habsburg Monarchy to the Kingdom of Yugoslavia - From a Socialist Republic to an Independent State

Carantania, sometimes Karantania, Carentania, also Korotan or Karantanija, was the first independent state of ancient Slovenes. Founded in 6th century, it lasted almost 300 years. First mentioned in 595 as "Gorostan", the mountain homeland of ancient Slovenes, situated north of the Karavanske. Also named Carantanum, which today demarcate the sovereign states of Slovenia, Austria and Northern Italy, and crudely designate the historical interstice of Europe’s Germanic, Romance and Slavic language area.

This mountain zone is a separate region in its own right, a discrete cultural area, a cultural climax, a  finely integrated pattern revealed through inter - play of man and environment. Since pre-historic times also an important thoroughfare between the Northern Adriatic and the Panonian plain, as well as other points to the north and east.

Forming a freer space for the formation of several issues, such as greater independence and self-determination among then powers was as much a challenge then as it is for present day Slovenes today, Perhaps this was the basic aim of Carantanian foreign policy. The secret target may have been the incorporation into a sphere of political influence within which the Carantanians had the upper hand in the sector of trade.  Carantania  possessed a location that used to be of key strategic position: the control of trade routes with the Middle East and Western Europe. The economies of northern Europe were similarly linked – indirectly like a train of interlocking "gears" – to the Indian Ocean monsoon. Good such as spices, textile, traveled overland and by internal waterways via Carantania to the trade fairs of northern Europe.

Part Two of the hard talk with Dr. Vladislav Bevc about the first comprehensive history of Slovenes in English under the title "Slovenia - The Land Between", an exclusive interview.

Vlado Bevc: What should be done in my opinion, instead of making obsequious spectacles out of receiving the Queen of England and the Heir-not-so-Apparent, the British ambassador should be sent home with a note stating that before he is received again, Britain should for each and every individual whom the Brits sent back to the Communists - knowing fully well that they would be executed – as Stalin made it clear in Yalta to Churchill –  pay  a pension for life  to his dependents. In practical terms there are preciously few survivors. But it would be of an enormous political significance if (once) a Big Power would be held accountable and made to pay (that is the only thing it understands) for its crimes against humanity.

This may never happen, of course!

Personally, I seek no reconciliation and remain aloof from any Slovenian patriotism.  Before erecting a monument to the victims, I would strongly suggest that Tito’s statues and monuments, as well as those of his henchmen.

Another thing which should be done - if there is any intention of having a "reconciliation" (Concorde) is to remove the status of "un-persons" from the non-Communist notables in the Slovenian Encyclopedia. That book lists only Communist approved persons, none of the democratic politicians. If any others are mentioned, as for instance Dr Pavel Pestotnik, they are designated as "traitors."

Traitors of what?

My cousin, Joze Bevc, motion picture director and screenplay writer, however,  made it into the Encyclopedia.

It would also be necessary that Milan Kucan (former President of Slovenia and Communist Party boss) and his henchmen disclose where are certain political opponents after being murdered buried. For example, Dr Crtomir Nagode, Andrej Ursic and others. As head of the OZNA/UDBA political police, Kucan should have the knowledge or at least resources to find out where the bodies are buried. Some of the remains would no doubt show evidence of torture prior murder which would further complicate any "reconciliation."

It was reported that in the case of Dr. Nagode the executioner used to shoot him gradually in the legs until he fell on the ground before finishing him off - if indeed they finished him off. In addition, records of UDBA dossiers may have been stashed away by  Milan Kucan, Zdenko Rotar and other Communists.

To this date it is not possible to obtain information or have access to UDBA police dossiers, while this is possible in former East Germany and even in Russia . The Russians, for example, have released the KGB files on Josip Broz alias Tito which document how many of his comrades he turned over to NKVD for execution all in order to remove competition.

There is the Reparations of Injustices Act and victims of Communism can get compensation for the abuse suffered under Communists. After such former victims goes through many hoops demanded by the Commission for the Implementation of the Law on Reparation of Injustices, he or she may be awarded the status of a "former political prisoner." Relatives and families of political émigrés and refugees who were held as hostages in Yugoslavia also can be awarded such status. The Communists then pay $146.05 Euro of indemnity for each month of captivity or accorded status of former political prisoner, however, not to exceed 8,435 Euro in total. There are more hoops laid out for them by the Slovenian Indemnity Fund or even the Parliament which constantly interferes and modifies the law retroactively. In many - if not most of the cases -  the award should be approx 20,000 Euro.

I leave it to the public to decide whether this is proper way a "reconciliation" should be carried out. Children of former political prisoners can obtain compensation only if they obtain a finding from a court in Slovenia that they are indeed the inheritors of the "newly found estate." As it is well known, Slovenian courts are almost hundred percent staffed by Communists, usually lazy females, not professional and who do not bother to look at the cases properly. The best bet is that a court will take a year or  year and a half. Most of the time the "judges"  are on vacations or maternity leave.

This obstacle, undoubtedly a deliberate one, is probably reason why many people do not even bother to file for reparations.

Q. Introduce us to the Slovenian Diaspora, who and where are they, activities, outstanding individuals and are there any projects by current Slovenian government to get them involved?
Vlado Bevc: Slovenians extensively publish in Argentina, United States and everywhere in the free world. I am still keeping the archive of the Slovenian Democratic Party in Exile and part of documentation has been donated to Hoover Institution on War Revolution and Peace at Stanford University in California. This essential part of it is included in my father`s book "Liberal forces in twentieth century Yugoslavia.

There are extensive publications by Miha Krek, chairman of the Slovenian National Committee, Ciril Zebot, a noted separatist, Janez Arnez, and others. The Slovenian Democratic Party in exile used to publish "DOMOVINA" (Homeland), a paper which used to come out at irregular intervals. That was the reason, why the Library of Congress, which normally requests a copy,  decided not to keep it. We understand that brother in law of Milan Kucan (former President of Slovenia and Communist Party boss) worked or works for the Library of Congress.

In Buenos Aires Milos Stare used to publish SVOBODNA SLOVENIJA (Free Slovenia), a weekly paper. In England Plenicar used to publish KLIC TRIGLAVA (A Call from Triglav), a mimeographed monthly paper. The Yugoslav Sokol (Yugoslav Falcon)  in the Free World was publishing quarterly SOKOLSKI VESTNIK in Milwaukee , Wisconsin .

Projects by current Slovenian government? Consolidation of their power and restoration of Communism – as far I can see.

Q. What are your views and comments, behind the scenes scenarios following the secession of Slovenia from Yugoslavia ?
Vlado Bevc: Best described in the paper by Ljubo Sirc: "The Communist Takeover – Slovenian Example with Possible Lessons for All", published in The South Slav Journal, 17, No. 65-66, 1996, and reprinted in "Smiling Slovenia" (Peter Lang Publishing, New York , 2008). I would hardly have anything to add.

As you know hardly anything ever changes in Slovenia .

Q. In the absence of accurate documentation, the political right wing is being accused by trying to rewrite the history. Isn't is high time to set the record straight?
Vlado Bevc: I know of no efforts of "rewriting the history" by the political right wing. Which parties are considered "right wing."?

Q. If you do not have an accounting of the past you cannot move forward. In essay "Choose Life Instead of the Culture of Death", the former Slovene Prime Minister Janez Jansa says that Slovenia is in crossroads and that by declaring independence and democratization in the years 1990 and 1991, Slovenia achieved the basic condition for the initial transcending of its fatal "divisiveness". He calls for rejection of "culture of dead" and proposes to end divisiveness. What is your view, what it the way forward for Slovenia ?
Vlado Bevc: Former Primer Minister Janez Janša is without any doubt an extraordinary politician of whom Slovenia has very few.

He was able to unseat the Communist continuity and, within the possibilities available under the law, clean up the administration of some Communists. He, unfortunately, could not do anything with the so-called courts which are almost hundred percent staffed by Communists and where the rule of law or any legal expertise is totally unknown .

Most Slovene judges are females who have little talent to work in judiciary, are ignorant of the basic concepts of law as understood in the West, generally lazy and malevolent and incapable of resolving even the most simple cases. But the way, laws that are written in the Balkan manner are, of course, also a millstone around any jurist’s neck.

Recently United States Supreme Court judge Mrs. Sandra Day O’Connor visited Slovenia. According to the skimpy US Embassy report, she discussed "important judicial issues." Apparently this was the topic of employment conditions for women. The visit took place roughly at the same time when the mass grave at Huda Jama was discovered, one of the many which contained also the remains of infants buried alive with their parents.

Fact is that nobody to date has ever been held accountable  before a court for complicity in such crimes against humanity, and which obviously did not impress Madame Justice O’Connor as an "important judicial issue."

I personally think that the cause of the rule of law and respect for dignity and the worth of the human person has been lost in Slovenia and will remain so for a long time to come.

One miracle per century namely  – the disintegration of the Soviet Union – is probably all one can expect.

Q. The "culture of dead" seem to be prevail in this region. An Austrian journalist looks at the election results in the State of Carinthia this spring 2009 and comments how a dead Haider could win an election and comments how Carinthia is a disgrace to democratic politics. How to choose life?
Vlado Bevc: Fate sometimes smiles at you and removes an enemy of life and liberty such as the Nazi Jorg Haider. Fact that such persons can hold a political office in Austria shows clearly that the de-nazification process has never been carried out in Austria. Yet the Austrians were the most virulent supporters of the Nazis.

The Fuehrer himself was Austrian, of course!  

Q. In our lives there is time for everything. It is time to cry, and it is time to smile. It is time to be hungry and thirsty. It is time to eat and drink. It is time to play and it is time for solution. It is time to divide, and it is time to meet. It is time to start and it is time to end. Where would you place Slovenians on this road.
Vlado Bevc: Mihajlo Pupin, an American of Serbian origin and inventor of long distance telephony talks about people who do not know what their goals are, as geese lost in the mist and fog. Slovenia is a place from which it is good to be away. And a place for fellows like me to forget!

Q. Man often seeks the truth outside - on ground or underground and forgets to like inside ¬himself. Where and what is the truth
Vlado Bevc: The truth is neither hard to find nor difficult to understand. It is the state of things and ourselves, and our interaction with and recognition of reality. Caves such as envisioned by Plato and the shows going on in them are not reality. We can do much better. Slovenians, on the other hand, when trying to escape reality including their former, now late President Drnovšek are contend that there are many "truths" .

For them living with themselves should be quite difficult.

Imagine a nation that used to execute infants!

Those personal "truths" of Slovenians are the ultimate perversion of The Eternal Truth and the Ideals of Man. And the Eternal Truth will always triumph no matter what the Slovenians, or anyone else for that matter, says or do.

Final thoughts, views, summary about the book…?,
Vlado Bevc: In his interview to the Slovenian Press Agency about the book "The Land Between, co- author Grdina explains that the history of the Slovenian space regardless of its small size -  is "great history". The title "The Land Between" according to him refers to some sort of place between Germany and Russia otherwise also named Eastern Central Europe. Here everyone is "small", including Poland with some 40 millions of population.  That Slovenia has experienced Fascism, Nazism and above all Communism for the longest period of time which  apparently has had an indelible influence on the character of its population. Parliamentary democracy, says Grdina, also had left its mark.

I would like to offer a somewhat less nice opinion, that the Slovenian land is split between the deeply rooted heritage of Communism and the still very distant allure of democracy. In the motion picture "Juarez", Emperor Maximilian sends an emissary to Juarez with the mission to explain that the only things separating them is democracy - as both have the welfare of the country at heart. Juarez ’s response is devastating: it is democracy that sets them apart forever.

Grdina’s assessment of Slovenian historians is to certain extent accurate. Although he was involved in government project which distorts the Slovene history of the 20th century, he presents a good assessment of the current situation. He distinguishes between those historians who would do anything for money and those who want to establish the facts, possibly at political cost for them. But I do think, he told it as it is.

I sense almost embarrassed  for being part of a project that presents the "Communist Revolution" and take over as "War of National Liberation."

Also interesting is the fact the co-author Grdina points out areas of research which are not yet researched  For example, the Slovenian People’s Party, the largest democratic party. Virtually nothing is written about it by Slovenian historians. As for the Slovenian democratic parties in exile, operating abroad, they were never mentioned in Slovenia by indigenous historians.

There is no paucity of information about the émigré politicians, starting with the extensive – but never released—files of the Yugoslav secret police which monitored their activities, to the records of the players and the records by various foreign governments about them and the contacts with them which were no doubt shared with the Yugoslav government. In Slovenia such records have been stashed away by former Communist officials or even -  destroyed.

Co – author Grdina does say that ignoring the history of Slovenian democratic parties between the two Wars is indeed the flaw of his and his comrades’ book. He expresses hope that efforts will be made to minimize such deficiencies in the future. He is quite reasonable in saying that certain periods in Slovenian history may be mostly based on myth but does not sum up that the greatest myth of all, which is the ridiculous pretending that the Communist Revolution was a struggle for Slovene National Liberation. (Note: In the USA, Communist is not capitalized, but Nazi is).

I wonder if Slovenian historians ever asked themselves the question what would happen if the Germans remained in Slovenia – and Yugoslavia – if there were no Communist Partisans. Of course they would not. As they did not remain in Denmark , Norway and perhaps a few other places that had no "national liberation resistance". Not to speak of the Channel Islands (part of England) where no "national liberation movement" existed at all.

As an apology for the confused and  in places deceptive writing of his comrades, the author points out that historical theories cannot be checked in the same way as  the theories are checked by experiment in natural sciences. While one cannot use the time machine to checks the facts – at least not yet but it will be fun if such a machine is ever discovered – there are quite a few methods available for finding out  what was going on in the recent past.

Just because Slovenians are unwilling to use them, it does not mean it could not be done.

The school has a dominant influence on forming the "historical recollections" of the youth, elaborates co-author Grdina. According to him, the influence of the media is not all that great. There is no question that the myth of the "national liberation" is being diligently pumped into the pupils in Slovenian schools. In the thinking part of the population periodic discoveries of mass graves testifying to the cruelty of Slovenians, which does not seem to have been surpassed by any totalitarian regime anywhere in Europe, must  cause bewilderment and dilemmas with which they seem incapable of coping.

Grdina points out that many have a tendency to expect others to have the same view of past events as different people have different experiences and there is a question where would the demand for a consensus lead. In his interview he mentions revisionist trends and tendencies in writing and rewriting the history of the 1940—1945 period. As an example, he cites the approach of historians to the history of the Soviet Union where for a time there was presentation of a "good" Lenin and "tyrannical" Stalin. Today it is known that the first eight years of Stalin’s rule were much milder than the previous rule of terror by Lenin. The exception was, of course, that Stalin was killing also Communists while Lenin did not. Similar seems to be the current myth of Che Guevara, supposedly the most humane revolutionary.

Any political hero will sooner or later turn out to be of questionable character. Take for instance Winston Churchill who was an imperialist, drunkard, and an adventurer but so far as Hitler was concerned Churchill was right long before others figured him out – but Churchil’s views were considered warmongering. He was right as far as Europe was concerned but with respect to India, for example, he was very wrong.

Discussing Josip Broz, alias Tito, and the incomprehensible infatuation of Slovenians with that repulsive Balkan dictator, Grdina thinks that life in the former "democratic" Yugoslavia was hard for most of the Slovenians as it was immediately after World War II but that later matter were looking brighter and it was later turn of events which made Slovenians so enamored with their Tito.

In reality the living standard in Tito’s Yugoslavia was lower as it was in Yugoslavia in 1939. Grdina points this interesting fact in the interview, but it is not mentioned  anywhere in the book, on the writings of what he cooperated. People tend to remember only good things and are forgetting the misery of the socialist system, scarcity of provisions and practically everything else, prohibition of traveling abroad, concentration camps, political show trials and the general reign of Communist terror which in later years tried to put on a mask of a civilized and well ordered society.

All in all, it seem to me as if Grdina is somewhat apologetic or rather attempting to put some distance between himself and the piece de resistance of the communist view of Slovenia ’s history. 

It is necessary to read between the lines and do a lot of subjective interpreting of what he said.

Dr. Bevc, thank you very much. 

References and further reading
Choose Life Instead of the Culture of Death
By Janez Jansa, Ljubljana , Demokracija, 12/XIV, March 19, 2009

Haider in their Hearts: Joerg Haider has just won the elections in the state of Carinthia .
Eva Menasse, Signandsight.com, issue 13th March, 2009, originally published in German in Die Zeit on 5 March, 2009 

Vladislav Bevc, Smiling Slovenia , Political Dissent Papers, Peter Lang Publishers 2008, New York . An extensive interview with the author was published on Buzzle under the title A Smiling Slovenia in two parts  

ABOUT VLADISLAV BEVC
Vladislav Bevc received his Ph.D. in electrical engineering from University of California , Berkeley , and was a postdoctoral fellow of the National Academy of Sciences and Air Force Office of Scientific Research at Oxford University St. Catherine's College , England . He has conducted scientific research in defense and aerospace industry and taught electrical engineering as Associate Professor at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey , California , and as a part-time lecturer at the University of Southern California and San Francisco State University .

Bevc was also senior staff member at the California Public Utilities Commission and a consultant to the Antitrust Division of the U.S. Department of Justice as well as a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University .

Vladislav Bevc is the author of research papers on applied physics and a contributor to the Reinhold Encyclopedia of Electronics and The Wiley Encyclopedia of Environmental Pollution and Cleanup.

He is also the author of Liberal Forces in 20th-Century Yugoslavia (Lang, 2007) as well as of research papers and book reviews on Yugoslav politics published in The South Slav, Journal and Canadian Review of Nationalism.

Image: Scenic Slovenia. According to former Slovene Prime Minister Janez  Jansa, Slovenia is on the crossroads. Which road Slovenia?