Live: Democratic Presidential Debate

Introduction
Welcome to the debate that will decide once and for all: who is to gain a slight advantage in a drawn-out primary election process for the Democratic presidential nomination that lasts for another six months before anything like a vote is cast.

This time it's different - oh yes - in that the debate, hosted by an unholy trinity of CNN, YouTube and Google, will consist of questions submitted via the magic of YouTube video. So far there's more than 3,000 sent in - and you can see them here. An exciting new frontier in user-generated political debate? Maybe. But CNN is choosing which questions, so that sort of defeats the point of the exercise. So, gimmick or ground-breaking? You decide.

Let's cut to the chase: it's the same eight contenders, ranging from the first rank (Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards), the also-rans (Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd), the long-shot (Dennis Kucinich) and the crazy uncle who escaped from the home (Mike Gravel). The latest polls shows Clinton in the lead with around 40%, Obama with 30% or less, and John Edwards down in the low teens. The others scrape by with a few percentage points, Richardson has picked up recently. But really, national polls mean nothing in a presidential primary: just ask Howard Dean.

The surprise is that this is the first official debate between the contenders, which will be a surprise to those of you who "enjoyed" the previous debates. Already the term debate fatigue has been coined. Right, let's be having it....

7pm So here we go: while it's raining cats and dogs in Britain, it's warm and sunny in Charleston (ok, there was a mud slide in Colorado).

The big questions tonight are whether this new-fangled interweb YouTube thing will make any difference to the debate, and more importantly, whether anyone can dent Hillary Clinton's machine-like grasp on the Democratic race so far?

The candidates are on stage, kicking off with a YouTube guy on screen. And now it's Anderson Cooper presenting, from the Citadel in South Carolina.

"We don't know how this is going to work," grins Cooper. And he's explaining how they choose the video-questions - and now they're showing some of the loser questions that didn't make from nut-jobs. Like the most popular question online, about whether the governor of California was a cyborg who could halt nuclear war. Oh ha ha.

7.05 The first real question from someone in Utah called Zach Kempf, about whether the candidate can make any difference. Joe Biden says he's experienced, blah blah blah. Next up, Barack Obama - he says that Washington has to change (they all say that).

7.08 A question for Dennis Kucinich along the same lines from Davis Fleetwood. He says he wants "peace through strength" - which sounds meaningless.

Hillary Clinton next: "The issue is which is us is ready to lead on day one." And the answer, she seems to imply, is her! Surprise.

7.10 Oh, tricky question for Clinton is she a liberal? Crowd noise. "I prefer the word progressive," says Hil. "I'm a modern progressive - I consider myself a proud modern American progressive."

7.12 Oh, fight. Mad Mike Gravel takes a pot-shot at St Barack of Obama about his fund raising, but Barack bats it away safely.

7.14 Question to Joe Biden - who would you choose as a vice president from the Republican party? That's easy, says Joe, Chuck hagel - the Nebraska senator who has come out strongly against the war in Iraq. John Edwards says the same thing. Surprise surprise. Then he bangs on about being a lawyer means fighting corporate evil people. So that's it, he's not a multi million dollar trail lawyer, he's fighter. For you. Grrr.

7.16 Really good question - should African Americans get reparations for slavery? Edwards says he's not for reparations, but moves smoothly into wondering why blacks in South Carolina pay more for mortgages. "What we need is someone who can take these people on," he says. Like ... him.

Obama answers: "I think the reparations we need right now are reparations for our schools." Big cheers. Then describes a poor school, a corridor of shame: "That's the reparations that would really make a difference."

7.20 Would Chris Dodd as president do something about Hurricane Katrina? Oh yes he would, he says. As does Bill Richardson. "We've got to get rid of any red tape that helps families," he says. Whoops!

By the way, Chris Dodds' website has lotsa good stuff on the debate.

7.23 Another good question, to Obama - what does he respond to those who say he isn't black enough? He makes a joke about how getting a cab in New York seems to make it clear enough (the joke there being that NY taxi drivers are loath to pick up blacks at night, by reputation).

7.24 Same question to Clinton about her being a woman. She says: "When I'm inaugurated that will send a great message to lots of little boys and girls around the world."

7.28 Question from two gay women Mary and Jen in ... somewhere, Brooklyn ... asking what about gay marriage? Kucinich says he's for it, Joe Biden is for civil union but not marriage, and Bill Richardson says he's for it.

7.31 Top question from a pastor, the Rev Reggie Longcrier, asking how anyone can use religion to justify depriving homosexuals of human rights? Applause. John Edwards hums and haws, and talks about "his journey". He doesn't support gay marriage. Anderson Cooper asks the reverend, who is in the audience, if he thought Edwards answered the question. He said he didn't think he did. Not good news for Edwards in South Carolina.

A quick break for an ad from Boeing and some CNN ads. So half an hour gone and no sparks yet: the tone if anything seems to be even more serious than the previous debates. The YouTube questions do add some freshness to the whole thing.

No one has made any great zingers or top replies ... ho hum. But the real problem is that with eight people on stage, it's just too many. No one gets a decent time to reply, and there's no follow up, or debate among the candidates, which is what we want to see. Eight is not just enough, it's too much: the numbers have to be cut down otherwise this is pointless.

7.39 We're back... oh, international questions, including one from Gabriel and Connie in a refugee camp in Darfur. Wow, that's different. What would the candidates do?

Bill Richardson: "I was at that refugee camp ... it's diplomacy, it's getting US peace keeping troops, it's getting China to pressure Sudan ... It's called leadership." He's on strong ground here. "We need a permanent UN peacekeeping force, stationed somewhere."

7.41 Joe Biden's also been to that camp. Popular place. Biden says we need troops on the ground.

Oh god it's Mike Gravel. Why is this man on stage? It's a waste of time and space.

Hillary Clinton is asked - how about American troops on the ground in Sudan? Eventually Clinton says "American troops don't belong on the ground" and says that support troops should be used.

Now it's Iraq time - and a photo of a dead US soldier from South Carolina is being shown on screen. That'll cheer things up. Big applause, this is at a military school after all.

7.45 Strange YouTube question of a guy saying "How do we pull out now?" several times.

Obama: "We have to send a clear message to the Iraqi government that there is no military solution." Wants a phased withdrawal and "diplomatic surge".

7.50 Another question on Iraq from a mother whose son is in Iraq. Dennis Kucinich says the Democrats have failed America. Oh that'll win votes. Chris Dodd says: "No one listens to us on foreign policy." Bill Richardson says he's got a plan to bring them all home in six months, the whole lot. "This war is a quagmire - the time has come to bring the troops home."

7.52 Oh god a question just for Mike Gravel, asking why he said every death in Vietnam was wasted. So he moans about how he doesn't get to so much. "Our soldiers in Vietnam died in vain."

Obama is asked if US deaths in Iraq are in vain - he takes a swing at Clinton. "The time for us to ask how we were going to get out of Iraq was before we went in," he says. Mmm. Are the troops dying in vain, yes or no? No - but the commander in chief is responsible says Obama.

Should women be registered for the draft? This is hardly a very central question to today's America. Hillary Clinton says something about public service. It's a good thing. Woo.

This is getting dull. So far the YouTube part of the debate has proved that ordinary people's questions are even duller than those of journalists. Or at least those questions chosen by CNN.

At this rate the Democrats are not going to frighten anyone, but they may send them to sleep. Good I'd vote for Rudy Giuliani at this point.

8pmOh god another question ... to Hillary, about women's rights in Arab states - would she be taken seriously by them? "Thank you John," says Hillary, and reminds everyone that she's been around the world a few times and met pretty much everyone in the world. "There isn't much doubt in anyone's mind that I can be taken seriously." She rolls off a list of countries that have women presidents etc. All of which is true.

An hour has gone and yet it seems like ... too long. This is silly - it's not a debate, it's like a classroom full of show-offs jostling for the teacher's attention.

8.02 A dumb-ish question about meeting various axis of evil world leaders like Chavez and so on in the first year in office. Obama says he would, and sounds a bit kittens-and-flowers, whereas Clinton says she wouldn't, she'd do the diplomatic work but wouldn't promise it, which is much more sensible.